Is mining the deep sea our ticket to green energy?: 5 Things podcast

On today's episode of the 5 Things podcast: Is mining the deep sea our ticket to green energy?Some of the most precious resources today are battery metals used in producing green energy - nickel, cobalt and copper among them. To date, humans have exploited nearly every inch of land on the planet to mine them. The last frontier? The deep sea. Much anticipated negotiations this July at the International Seabed Authority, an autonomous international organization established by the UN, were expected to result in rules for mining in the deep sea. But that didn’t happen. Instead the ISA is pushing off the finalization of a regulatory framework until at least 2025. What’s at stake here?Podcasts: True crime, in-depth interviews and more USA TODAY podcasts right here

Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Elizabeth Weise:

Hello, and welcome to a special episode of 5 Things. I'm Elizabeth Weise, a climate correspondent for USA TODAY. Today is Sunday, August 6th. Some of the most precious resources today are battery metals used in producing green energy, nickel, cobalt, and copper among them. To date, humans have exploited nearly every available resource on the planet to mine them. The last frontier, the deep sea. Much anticipated negotiations this July at the International Seabed Authority, an autonomous international organization established by the UN, were expected to result in formal rules for mining in the deep sea, but that didn't happen. Instead, the Seabed Authority, or ISA, is pushing off the finalization of a regulatory framework until at least 2025. What's at stake here? To learn more, I sat down with Dr. Diva Amon, a marine biologist who specializes in the little-known habitats and animals who live in the deep ocean. She's also a scientific advisor to the Benioff Ocean Science Laboratory at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Dr. Amon, thanks for joining me.

Dr. Diva Amon:

Thank you so much for having me, Beth. Pleasure to be here.

Elizabeth Weise:

So I want to start out asking, what happened at ISA's recent meeting? For our listeners, the ISA is the governing board of all things about the deep ocean floor. Unlike the waters up to 200 nautical miles from a country's coastline, the rest of the ocean is considered to be a global commons belonging to everyone and no one at the same time. That's where the ISA has governing rights. So what happened at the negotiations in July?

Dr. Diva Amon:

So at these negotiations, we've been seeing a handful of countries, as well as mining companies, as well as the ISA Secretary-General, really pushing for the adoption of the mining code. So the mining code are the rules, regulations, and procedures that are going to govern all mining activity if it ever does move forward in the deep sea. So we've seen this really, this attempt to sort of fast-track things. But at this meeting, what happened is after two weeks of really intense negotiations, the ISA Council ended with no deep sea mining code agreed or adopted, and a pretty big recognition that, "Hey, this is not going to be ready for at least another year, perhaps much more."

Elizabeth Weise:

And what countries are represented by the agency?

Dr. Diva Amon:

So this agency, once you're a signatory to the United Nation Convention on the Law of the Sea, you are represented by the International Seabed Authority. And so that's the majority of countries on Earth. And we've seen countries really split so far into those that are more pro-mining and those that are more pro-environment.

Elizabeth Weise:

Is the U.S. part of this agency?

So the U.S. interestingly is not. The U.S. has not ratified UNCLOS. And that means that while they are at the negotiations and they are able to intervene and share their thoughts on the negotiations and the issues at hand, they're not able to take part in decision making.

Elizabeth Weise:

So the tiny island nation of Nauru intends to be the first applicant for permission to pursue industrial-scale deep-sea mining. Why Nauru?

Dr. Diva Amon:

Well, I mean that's a big question that many of us who work on this issue ask, but you need to team up with a country. And so this Canadian company, the Metals Company, has teamed up with Nauru and are effectively being sponsored by Nauru. Essentially, they have partnered in order to get a license for exploration, which is the first part of the process. And what Nauru says is that they do not have many resources at hand. They're a very small country in the Pacific, and this is one way that they see potential revenue coming into their country in the future, as well as they see this potential industry being at the forefront of the search for critical minerals that are needed for the green transition. And Nauru, they're a country that is very vulnerable to the climate crisis.

Elizabeth Weise:

So China's also become a player in this negotiation. What's their position?

Dr. Diva Amon:

So China has always been a player. They actually have about five exploration contract areas around the world in international waters. But this year we really saw a huge amplification in their presence at the negotiation. In the assembly session, we saw China essentially block for the entire week a discussion on the protection of the marine environment. And this was the first time that topic was tabled at the assembly, and yet China refused to even allow the discussion to take place. And that really did shed a lot of light on the real governance deficiencies of the International Seabed Authority. And then the fact that they are meant to be safeguarding the deep ocean. Not only are they meant to be promoting mining, but they're also meant to be protecting the marine environment and safeguarding it for humankind. And so this really showed that perhaps there are real deficiencies in the way they're able to undertake that mandate.

Elizabeth Weise:

Well, the deep sea has certainly been in the news lately. As our listeners might recall, the submersible named Titan was headed for the Titanic wreck in the deep sea when it, unfortunately, imploded, killing all five people on board. What makes the deep sea so difficult to explore and what do we know about it?

Dr. Diva Amon:

Well, the deep sea is a really tough place to work. Not only is there no sunlight whatsoever, once you go past about 500 feet. Temperatures hover just above freezing and there are crushing pressures. We're not able to go down unless you're in an extremely well-certified vehicle that has been through rigorous testing, and those are obviously not easy to come by. So deep sea research is really very limited by the resources that have been put towards it thus far. But there has been a lot of exploration that's been happening over the last century. And even though far less than 1%, I think about 0.0001% of the deep sea has ever been seen with human eyes, we still have learned a lot in the last century. And so we're finding that the deep sea is home to incredibly important ecosystems. It is a near pristine environment, which is something that is very hard to come by on this planet given how far our fingertips reach.

And it is home to a remarkable reservoir of biodiversity. Everything from Dumbo octopus to Yeti crabs to sharks that are able to glow in the dark, corals and sponges that can live for thousands of years. And what we know now is that that biodiversity, all of those hundreds of thousands of species, those undertake functions that lead to ecosystem services that we rely on, that all life on Earth relies on, that essentially keep the planet habitable. So it helps to provide food for billions of people around the world. It plays a critical role in regulating our climate by sequestering carbon and absorbing heat. And more and more, it is providing us with incredible compounds that could provide solutions to some of the greatest challenges to face humanity, like antibiotic resistance.

Elizabeth Weise:

So what are the possible risks of mining the deep sea? What could go wrong?

Dr. Diva Amon:

So there are a lot of risks and what we're seeing happening with the International Seabed Authority is really a very rapid and unrestrained expansion of potential mining into the deep sea. And that mining is going to cause significant damage to near pristine and important ecosystems. And what's really worrying is it's going to be across enormous scales that have never been seen before. So specifically the mining process is going to directly remove and destroy sea flow habitats along with all of the unique fauna that live there. It's going to create sediment plumes that are kind of like dust storms that will extend that mining footprint for tens to hundreds of kilometers horizontally to thousands of feet vertically. There's the potential for contaminant release, so toxic metals being taken up into food chains for instance. And there's going to be significant increases in noise and light. And the deep sea is a very dark and quiet place, and all of these impacts are not going to be limited to the deep sea.

Deep sea mining is not something that's going to exist only in the deep sea. This has the potential to impact all of the water column, all of the ocean. This industry is thinking about moving forward in a real absence of scientific data, knowledge, and understanding. As I said, far less than 1% of the deep sea has ever been explored, and in many of these places where deep sea mining may happen, about 80 to 90% of the species that are being found there are brand new to science. They don't even have a name. And so we're just beginning to explore these places. We're just beginning to understand what lives there. We're not even beginning to understand yet about how they live there, their ecology, their functions, why they're important. And then it makes it even harder to understand how they might be impacted and how we try to mitigate those impacts. So this could be essentially humankind repeating many of the mistakes it's made in the past all over again.

Elizabeth Weise:

Nauru has argued that the worsening impacts of climate change make mining that much more urgent since the metals they're hoping to find are necessary for the transition to renewable energy. What's your response to that argument?

Dr. Diva Amon:

So that is certainly the main argument used by mining proponents. However, I would say that is a completely false narrative. Mining the deep sea to solve the climate crisis is like smoking for stress. There's the potential for long-term serious harm for a very short-term gain. The ocean is our greatest ally in the fight against the climate crisis and the deep sea is a huge part of that, and there are just far more risks than potentially benefits. Also, with regard to this need for critical minerals, we've seen, I think that's a narrative that's really being pushed by pro-mining proponents. But we've seen the International Renewable Energy Agency, IRENA, and the International Energy Agency say just this July, just last month, that supply could be sufficient to support national climate pledges of critical minerals this decade without heading into the deep sea.

We've also seen the European Academy's Science Advisory Council say the narrative that we need minerals from the deep sea for the climate crisis is again misleading, and that actually that transition is going to be possible through recycling rates and the current supplies that exist. I think the last thing is that battery innovation is growing in leaps and bounds, and we are seeing many battery producers moving away from the metals that would be gained from deep-sea mining. Things like cobalt and nickel to open up this entirely new frontier again in one of the most pristine and unexplored parts of our planet would be really irresponsible for an industry that we may not need in the future.

Elizabeth Weise:

Well, and interestingly so, Canada, France, Germany, and other countries want to pause deep-sea mining. What's their argument?

Dr. Diva Amon:

Yeah, exactly that. The risks are too great. We need time to collect the science to have a better understanding about what is at risk here. We need time to put in place robust rules, regulations, and procedures to manage mining. Again, this is mining that's going to be happening thousands of feet down in the deep sea, very hard to monitor. So we need to make sure that if it does move forward, it is going to happen in a very secure and robust way. Also, again, there are very real questions about whether this is even needed and how we make sure it benefits all of humankind. These minerals are called the common heritage of humankind. That means they belong to you, they belong to me, they belong to everyone on the planet. They belong to generations that are yet to come. And I think that's why all of those deficiencies are really why we've seen so many different groups coming forward to really oppose deep sea mining.

It's now 21 countries that have called for a pause, a moratorium, or a ban. We've seen close to 800 ocean experts or scientists calling for a pause, multiple companies including BMW, Volvo, Volkswagen, Samsung, Google. We've seen celebrities like Jason Momoa, Aquaman, we've seen indigenous groups, the UN Commissioner on Human Rights. Most recently, the seafood sector have huge concerns about how this may impact their ability to provide safe seafood in the future. And again, all of that is because of the glaring scientific gaps, the sheer volume of unaddressed regulatory issues, and this complete absence of how we would share the benefits.

Elizabeth Weise:

Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights on this, Diva. We really appreciate it.

Dr. Diva Amon:

My absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Beth.

Elizabeth Weise:

Thanks to Mark Sovel and Cherie Saunders for their production assistance. Our senior producer is Shannon Rae Green. Our executive producer is Laura Beatty. Let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to [email protected]. Thanks for listening. I'm Elizabeth Weise. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow with another episode of 5 Things.